1995-01-22: This Old House: Historic Preservation in Virginia (part 2)

Transcription:

UVA WITH GOOD REASON
Volume II, Number

Richard Guy Wilson,
Richard Couture, LC

This Old House:Historic Preservation in Virginia
Greeting
From private homes to mini-marts, Virginia's famous Colonial
architecture has influenced builders across the nation.
Next on
With Good Reason --what makes Virginia architecture unique. I'm
Laura Womack.
Music
Background
When we think of Virginia architecture, elegant Colonial homes with their graceful white columns come to mind. Or the sprawling
plantation houses with their huge lawns that line the James River East of Richmond. The state's architectural legacy is it's luxurious country estates built for the wealthy of yesteryear.
But what of Virginia's urban architecture? Or dwellings for the more modest? And haven't we built anything worth remembering in the last century? Today we're talking about Virginia's
architectural history and efforts to preserve some mementos of
that past. We'll be joined in a moment by an architectural
historian and a chronicler of the preservation movement.
Right now Carolyn Elliott reports on these on-going efforts to
decide which buildings shouldn't be paved over --literally.
(Sound of a car driving down a gravel road comes up)
Beckett
This is the hamlet of Evergreen, which was established about
1855, it's just a nice farming, very rural area and, in
fact, up in front of us is a nice two-story log house. This
house here is about 1825e
Over to the right we discovered what we think is an india nmound, which is unusual and you can see it, it's right over the flood plain where that tree is.
Elliott
It's a clear, breezy fall day, in the rural hill country of
Southwest Virginia, as Ann Beckett winds her car down route 655.Residents here --who are mostly farmers --want this 2.1 mile
stretch of gravel road paved and widened. But the graters can'tstart their engines, until Beckett has finished her job. She is an architectural historian for the College of William and Mary who was hired by the Highway Department to survey this area for
historic houses the new road may affect.
Beckett First I just drive up and down the road to see what's here. Get a brief overview of the houses and I have to determine which of the houses are fifty years of age or older. That's the first thing I have to do to determine their historic significance. And then usually, I'll park the car and get a little bit closer to each one of them and knock on the door talk to the people and survey it and fill out a form and get some photographs.
Elliott
So you know everybody in the neighborhood by the time you're done?
Beckett Yes I do and their dogs too.
Elliott
This stretch of remote road turns out to be architecturally and
archaeologically rich. Beckett and an archeologist from William and Mary first surveyed the area last summer. Two structures the log house and the indian mound --merit further research.
(Car door slams. Cows moo.)
Elliott
So, this is just feed storage and tool storage?
Panel
Yeah.
Elliott
This is a nice house.
Panel
It was done a little bit better than what the first ones coming through really.
Elliott
Yeah, it's two-story and
Beckett
Yeah, I think that would be real unusual in a log house that you would have the paneled wainscoting and this and you have the nice --the trim over the panel doors and those are just unusual features.
Elliott
The log house is one of four buildings on D.C. Panel's farm that date back to the nineteenth century. The new road won't affect the buildings but it will cut into Panel's property.
(Sounds of milling around the building up)
Beckett
So I have to photograph all the houses, inside and out, every room. Any details, fireplaces, mantels, trim doors and then we are going to make a site plan of this whole
farmstead.
Elliott
The farmstead includes some rare buildings like a stone
springhouse.
Door opens. Bring up running water.
Beckett
It probably dates to the German phase, which would be 1790's
or somewhere in there. And it's been running continuously.
(drinks water)
Beckett
Whew, You're next.
Elliott
Did you know that when you got a new road it was going to include all these people to coming and spending all this time on your property to see if these buildings
were historic?
Panel
I had no idea. But that's alright maybe that's one of the
advantages of the road coming through.
Elliott
When Beckett finishes her job, a historian will research the
site. The final report will include archeological drawings and a
history of the farmstead and the area. The bid for Beckett's
additional research on the Panel house and for her partners
archeological work on the indian mound is around $20,000. The
initial survey on the road ran about $8000.
A few miles from Beckett's road, Mac Mcilhany, is doing a similar
survey for another highway job.
Mcilhany
The bridge is on route 11, which crosses Reed Creek here in
Wythe County, was built in 1931. It's what you call an underdeck truss bridge. And we're planning on replacing the bridge right now and before we can do that we wanted to find out if the bridge were historically significant. And that's
the reason we had the phase two study done to find out you know, is it a rare survivor of this type of bridge? Is it the only one of it's type or is it architecturally
significant? Results of the survey so far are that the bridge is not considered significant.
Elliott
The bid VDOT employs five archeologist and five architectural
historians, like Mcilhany, full time. In the past five years on the job, Mcilhany has uncovered indian
campgrounds, pieced together life in a mining camp and traced the origins of old bridges. When the workload gets too heavy forMcilhany and his assistant, he contracts out jobs to organizations like William and Mary.
The Virginia Department of Highways surveys more than 1,000 road projects like these every year. Under the Historic Preservation
Act, passed by Congress in 1966, VDOT is required to run a cultural survey on federal highway projects. Five years ago, the State of Virginia enacted similar guidelines for state road
projects.
Tony Opperman is preservation program manager for the Virginia Department of Transportation.
Opperman
Well, for state-funded projects, many of those also have federal permits attached to them. So, if we were to wait until we knew what permit action was going to happen, we'd be acting very late so it's much more practical for us to deal with state-funded projects in a manner that's entirely comparable with the way we deal with federal projects. From
a more philosophical standpoint, what we are attempting to
do is to balance two different values of the Commonwealth of Virginia --one value being for transportation, and the other value that I think everybody will recognize is historic preservation.
Elliott
Opperman says the Highway Department moves roads to avoid
historically significant structures when they can.
Opperman
Well, I think a good example of this was an incident that
happened earlier this year in the Western part of the state. In which, at a very late point in the development of a project, we discovered the presence of a native American burial cave. And --as I said --this was at the last minute but we took actions to shift the alignment of the road to avoid the cave and we also took and action to protect the remains inside the cave by erecting a particular type of
protective gate called a bat-gate and the bat gate keeps people out and allows the cave to continue to be used as bat habitat. These actions were very economical on the part of the Commonwealth of Virginia and resulted in the long-term preservation of probably one of the most important small native american sites in the western part of the state.
Elliott
David Dutton is director of project review for the Virginia
Department of Historic Resources.
Dutton
Now that we have a system in place
Elliott
But even after all of this is done the property still doesn't
automatically go on the historic register.
Dutton
One thing we do encourage...
Elliott
Reporting from Southwest Virginia, With Good Reason, this is
Carolyn Elliott.
Background
Womack
Deciding which of Virginia's many old buildings to save is clearly an intensive undertaking and a difficult task. The state is known for its architecture, especially its Colonial buildings. But the task of the architectural preservationist is not limited to saving the stately white-columned structures.
In the studio with me now to discuss the variety of Virginia's
architecture are Richard Couture of Longwood College who has
written a history of the Association for The Preservation of
Virginia Antiquities. Also, the University of Virginia's Richard Guy Wilson who is co-author of The Making of Virginia Architecture.
INTERVIEW
Womack
Richard Guy Wilson, in the preface to your book it says that architecture is Virginia's most significant contribution to the arts. Why?
Wilson
I'm not sure that Virginia has much of an achievement, really in painting. Literature, yes, but certainly one doesn't think of Virginia in terms of Faulkner or the great southern writers. Thomas Nelson Page, but that's hardly a household word,
name today. But architecture, architecture is where Virginia culturally in this country has stood out. You open any book on American architecture, indeed any book on world architecture, you open any American history textbook and you are going to find examples of Virginia buildings in there. Of course Mount Vernon, Monticello, the University of Virginia, the James River
plantations, this is where American architecture began. But it's
an odd sort of contribution because these buildings I've just named to you, then what do you find after 1826, the death of Thomas Jefferson? Very little that anybody can name as far as abuilding in Virginia. Maybe Dulles airport, but Dulles airport could be anywhere, it's not particularly unique to Virginia. Another famous building in Virginia although we don't think about
it as architecture is the Pentagon. But again that is a building that could be anywhere. So the Virginia architectural
contribution is for us today I think a particularly sort of ahistorical contribution and there is this retrospective look back
at it. Now there is one further Virginia building or complex of
buildings that frequently shows up and of course that's colonial
Williamsburg. But in reality, much of what your looking at in
colonial Williamsburg is twentieth century restoration, if not
brand new buildings.
Womack
Tell me, what are characteristics of Virginia architecture?
How can you look at a building and say, "That's a Virginia
building"?
Or if you're at the A&P mini mall in Missouri, how do you say,
"That came from Williamsburg"?
Couture
You take that one, I'll sit here and listen.
Wilson
That's a question that one would have to squirm an awful lot with. I think that there has been a tendency, that 17th, 18th,the early 19th century, red brick, white trim, colonial or Georgian, or Jeffersonian, that type of look, has been our identification. You can go into any city of any size in this country, and your going to see a portico coming from Mount Vernon. I don't care where you are, that portico, those spindly legs that holds up the portico on Mount Vernon adds distinction
to any house anywhere.
Womack
With a minimum of architectural terms, since its been a longtime since I've seen those, what's Georgian?
Wilson
Well Georgian officially is the architecture that was built under the four Georges of England. From the early 18th century until 1830. About a hundred odd years, officially.
Couture
You can identify this. You know, I think the red brick or the white clapboard, or the belt course and the fancy cornice line and the roof, and the symmetry is there.
Womack
I was reading again in your book, Richard Wilson, that counties in Virginia have the more important architecture than the towns. I was interested to hear your comments about Norfolk and some of these other cities, Richmond
Wilson
Well, right, of course my identification of that was that the Virginian's heart, I think, has remained in the countryside.
One thinks of Jefferson and his agrarian democracy, the idea of
the honest farmer. I mean, that's the way he saw this country
developing. He was not particularly in favor of big cities,
that's where you got revolutions born, where you got a lot of
problems and so forth.
Couture
I wanted to add to that 1 I agree with him completely, I
think one of the reasons it stayed in the counties rather than go
to the cities or at least as far as the important periods of our
architectural history is concerned is that you've got to realize
that in Virginia for the first 93 years everybody thought in
terms of the Chesapeake as the avenue and the highway to home,
and home is not here, it's over there in England. So he's right,
our architecture has
remained by and large in the country. And poor Jamestown, when we moved it away in 1699 to Williamsburg it just dried up and blew away and there was nothing left but farmland as early as 1900.

Womack
When we think of preservation efforts we tend to think of those big rambling country estates here in Virginia but in some other parts of the country like the midwest they are very proud
of their more humble architecture like their log cabins, sod
huts, sort type of thing. Does that say something about what we
value here in Virginia?

Couture
I don't know. I'm not going to put down the log cabin myth
and I'm not going to put down the sod hut. But I think you're
going to have to remember what kind of society you're talking
about that developed that. Several years ago I was a panel
on that was going to come out of public radio concerning the Barons of the James. Those men who, like William Byrd, who felt that they were strong enough, big enough, and more important enough to
dominate the James River. And I
found myself in a great dilemma when I was asked by one of the directors. one of the producers of the program, "Where is the black, the afro-american architectural
evidence that exists?", and I had to say, "It isn't there". And you're talking about a society that produces this. When you go west into the log cabin, well the log cabin is really a Delaware
thing, or North Carolina claims it as you know, when you go West and you find that it's a different society entirely that produces that. Architecture is a reflection of the society that produces it.

Wilson
Let me just say. Let's not forget that what has survived from the 17th Century or the 18th Century is so infinitesimal of
the tremendous amount of buildings.
And that most of the early buildings, especially in the 17th Century was impermanent
architecture. I mean, they came over and threw up something very very fast and with intention they weren't going to stay very long, or it was going to lead to something more substantial. And
that again, an awful lot a building is what we would call earth fast building, where they were putting the wooden foundations right in the ground. I mean what we surviving of
see
the 17th and 18th Century is basically brick. Brick was a very
elite and a very expensive material. So there is not that much
evidence that is really left.
Womack
I also wonder how much it comes out of the history of the
preservation movement that really started in Virginia. You've
written the history of the Association for the Preservation of
Virginia Antiquities.

Couture
Right.

Womack
Another book I was reading about that particular
organization or about the preservation movement was saying that
it was started by very wealthy elite members of society. Their
efforts in Jamestown really started the preservation movement
across the United States.

Couture
Yeah. They wanted to save Jamestown. They didn't know what they were saving. They wanted to save what to them was holy ground. It was being farmed at the time. The Ambler family had
a
big farm on the property and a great big house on the other side. In 1888, it was really Ms. Mary Jeffrey Gault of Norfolk, and Ms.
Cynthia Coleman in Williamsburg. Ms. Coleman was a marvelous
lady. She had her daughter go down and pick flowers and send
them to New York and pour cement on the foundation of the Capital Building in Williamsburg. And Mary Jeffrey Gault ran all over the Commonwealth of Virginia trying to get people interested in saving Jamestown. They didn't have any money and finally it sold to a family --the property sold and they farmed it and they
decided the only way that they could get the piece of property
that had the church tower on it and the sacred ground to make
was the wife of the family a permanent member of the Board of the APVA and then she would in pillow talk get her husband to donate
the acreage. They got 22 acres.

Womack
How did they get the movement started across the United States? What about that ...

Couture
Well, they decided that they would have Chapters. And they figured that everybody --I mean it's going to be conceited but let's face it, everybody needs to respect Virginia. So they put up chapters in Chicago, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Seattle, and places like that and they expected these people to contribute money for the preservation of these Virginia antiquities. And as
a matter of fact, one of the directors, Angus Murdock told me
that the only one still active is in Nashville --and he went
down to give them a talk and he had to do it by television
because they were all in nursing homes. But they still send in
some money every year. These are ex-patriots of the best order,
guess for us. But they got excited about it and they wrote
friends and they made their friends write friends. And they got
it off the ground.

Womack
Well, from my readings from your work, it seems like the
initial preservation efforts were concerned primarily with buying
them and keeping these buildings from destruction. The
preservation has come a long way since then.

Couture
Oh, Yeah!

Womack
And now there are a number of issues like when you
are
preserving --when you are putting that paint back on and when
you are restoring some of the architectural of details, it's the
accuracy issue. And I think that's a big subject of discussion
for preservationist and restorationist because sometimes
it's
very difficult to know.

Couture
Well, I think technology has come a long way, there. Wouldn't you agree Professor?

Wilson
Well, that's true but when the history of the preservation
movement is written from a hundred years from now, from the perspective, I think this
can be seem as tied in much more with
also environmental. And the whole concern over --What we
are
doing to our landscape? What are we doing to the Virginia landscape? I mean one only has to drive down from Washington,
D.C. when you turn off to 66 onto 29 and begin coming down there just to begin to see what has happened --what is going on to the Virginia countryside. I mean this is a preservation issue, but it is a bigger issue. It's a planning issue --it's an
environmental issue, I think.
Couture
I agree with you.

Womack
Well, let's us look at some of the issues that
preservationist deal with in preserving not with dealing with the outside world such as --You, Richard Wilson, you were talking earlier about Williamsburg and the issue there of recreation verses whether it's restoration. In Williamsburg, you've got the
controversy of the colors. What were the original colors? Were those building that way when they were originally in use?


Wilson
Well, right. Williamsburg is one of the great 20th Century American creations. And I mean that in a genuine sense. It has probably had more influence architecturally in this country than any modern building --you can go to any American suburb --you go into the A&P parking lot and there you see the impact of Colonial Williamsburg. But unfortunately, that's what a lot of people just think that's what preservation is. It's that sort of a recreation. And preservation is gone, I think in a very different tact from that.

Womack
Well, let me ask you that. What do you do when a building
or a community like Williamsburg has been used, in use over a
long period of time and people from the different eras have added
on, for example, I believe this is an example of Thomas
Jefferson's Capitol Building.

Couture
Well, they do that in England. You go to an English Cathedral and you are going to see Romanesque, Gothic, and each one has an integrity of its own.

Wilson
And a story to tell.

Couture
And a story to tell. You can't just say --Oh well
--we are
only going to do this and only going to do that.

Womack
Well see, that's any interesting point. And I was reading a book by Iver Newelhiem, I hope I got his name right. He did a lot of work in archeology in Virginia. In his book, Martins
Hundred, he writes about the mansion that was on that property.
There's a woman
still living in it and she wanted it restored, but as you said, Richard Couture, she needs rest rooms. So, isn't that just a ludicrous thing or should she be using
an
outhouse.

Couture
No, No, No. I think you have to think you know. I live in a house that was finished in 1835, but I've got a washing machine and dryer with all of the nice amenities. But that's what you
understand. It's adaptive use in many cases, which haven't
we used as a term, but I'm sure Professor Wilson knows that term better than I do. Adaptive uses --well, what are you going to
use it for. Is it going to be a bed and breakfast, or a home -�
whatever you decided to use But want one
it for. I to add thing about this. If you are doing a building, whether it be a train station in Detroit or a private home on the James River or where
ever you are. If you are smart, you will let the building tell you. And one of the things I do in teaching historic preservation
--the students all at Longwood laugh at me because
they say, "Yeah, well the best thing we will do is go out and read a building," And I say "yes" well that's the whole point, isn't it? You learn to see what the building has --What happened here? What's going on here? What is the adaptive use of this building to be intended? But what really happened here and is that really something you want to rid yourself of or do you want to incorporate that in the story and the fabric of the building as it moves through time?
Womack
Well, in a number of cities some of these older buildings are seeing new life through the adaptation to professional offices, like dentist office or architects office, and doctor's offices. Sometimes, though when they're restoring these buildings, they're adding walls. They are not always very sensitive. What do the two of you think of that?
Wilson
Well, again it depends on the relative importance of the
structure that you are talking about. But there is a technique in preservation or restoration. In which you try to preserve the original fabric and try to make free plain what it is that you're adding to it that you make it very clear. But yes, I mean an old mill or an old three-or four-story office building in downtown, they are going have to be adapted to modern use in some sort of contemporary type of use. Otherwise, they are just not going to be there. We can only have so many museums and I mean, indeed, I think we are approaching a crisis in this country of funding because there is a tendency --I mean it's pretty clear that at least right now Americans don't want to pay anymore taxes for anything. And to expect it all to be supported out of philanthropy or out of somebody's pockets --you are not going to be able to survive out of admissions of paying a couple of bucks to go into something. I am worried for the immediate future of what is going to happen to many of the historic house museums which did spring up in the wake of the bicentennial. What's going to happen to the next couple of years?
Couture
He steered right on that one because it is absolutely true that preservation money and funding for preservation especially from governmental preservation is soft. And it is the first thing that goes when you have a recession or a decline in the economy and people think in turns of schools, and they think in terms of highways, and they think in terms of services. The last item down the list is money for a preservation situation. I think the division of historic resources is undergone an enormous growth and pull back, growth and pull back, growth and pull back over its time. It is an important situation for us --one of the most important things, I think we have in the entire Commonwealth. But whenever --it's one of those situations you
can pull that. Nobody is going to get excited. Preservationists don't march on the streets with placards.
Womack
Richard Couture, Richard Guy Wilson thank you both so much for joining us on With Good Reason.


Couture
Thank you.
Wilson
Thank you.
Credits
My guests are Richard Couture of Longwood College who has written
a history of the Association for The Preservation of Virginia
Antiquities. Also, the University of Virginia's Richard Guy
Wilson who is co-author of The Making of Virginia Architecture.
On our next show, we'll explore the romance of baseball
literature, and talk about whether amidst the politics, the all�
American sport has any of its old allure. This is With Good
Reason.
The project coordinator is Michael McDowell. Carolyn Elliott is
the producer. Kevin Piccini wrote the theme music. I'm Laura
Womack.
With Good Reason is produced with the assistance of WCVE
Richmond. Special thanks to the University of Virginia.

Announcer
With Good Reason is produced for the Virginia Higher Education
Broadcasting Consortium by the State Council of Higher Education and public radio stations serving Virginia.
The views expressed are not necessarily those of the consortium or this station.
To comment on today's program or to receive tapes or transcripts, call toll free. 1 800 245-2434.
MUSIC
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Promo
From private homes to mini-marts, Virginia's famous Colonial architecture has influenced builders across the nation. And efforts to preserve the state's most famous colonial site -�Williamsburg --sparked a national interest in architectural
preservation.
On the next With Good Reason we'll talk about what architectural elements define the Virginia style and the controversy over
preserving some buildings that may stand in the way of progress.
I'm Laura Womack.
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